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And it’s not just the US that’s been saying that, Europeans and Australians have been saying similar things. I still continue to believe that it is in China’s interests to be able to show what it’s doing in a credible way. It’s not a matter of taking the development plan and letting others criticise it. It’s more creating the confidence that China’s really moving forward. The question is: isn’t it in China’s interest to actually tell that story in an effective way?

Words mean different things to different people. I don’t think we are creating a framework where individual people will be walking around the country looking at whether or not that smoke stack really is emitting as much pollution as you said it was. The US wouldn’t allow other countries to walk around and test their smoke stacks, so I don’t think they should expect that of others and I don’t think that they do. Similarly, we can’t have an international response to climate change which doesn’t provide us with basic information about how much progress we’re making towards dealing with this challenge.

MS: What is the outlook for green jobs in the US?

JS: Well, there are not enough. We know for example that a dollar invested in clean-energy jobs produces four times as many jobs as in the fossil-fuel industry, sometimes as much as 10. If you look at the US$80 billion that was spent in the US in terms of clean energy, renewables, energy efficiency, it created four times as many jobs as if we had spent that US$80 billion [534 billion yuan] on fossil fuels, coal and oil. If you talk to the labour unions in the US, they are convinced that the future of their industry, the future of their jobs is on the clean-energy basis. They really, I think finally, believe that. And I think the key is to turn these prospects into delivery and I think unfortunately politicians haven’t done a good enough job of creating policy frameworks to send those signals.

All those industries in China, for example, that have popped up to create renewables. Those facilities are massive and lots of people are manufacturing solar and wind turbines. The Chinese have really seen a huge opportunity to create jobs and new industries and are taking advantage of it. Unfortunately the US has not made as significant strides of late as other countries.

MS: And the renewable industry doesn’t have as much influence as the fossil-fuel industry.

JS: The opponents to action always have a lot of money because they’ve built up huge industry and they can send misinformation to the American public and to the global public. And we continue to believe that people will see their claims as that – myths, not reality. The impacts of climate change are real, being felt everyday. If you look at what’s happening in Pakistan and Russia, it’s hard not to see the forecast of the future and I think that people will have to see that things are happening now as we speak.

But the other thing is that the fossil-fuel industry, which supposedly is defending them, is not creating new jobs for them. The new jobs are in clean energy and energy-efficiency deployment and not in old industries of the past – dinosaur industries as opposed to future industries.

Meng Si is managing editor in chinadialogue’s Beijing office.

Homepage image from The White House shows president Barack Obama with solar executives in Florida.

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